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Cameron's Chip

And why did I not think of this before?!

Cameron's chip! That's what the AI was after in To the Lighthouse! Duh. It's so clear to me now. The goons obviously knew Cameron was a machine, which is why they nabbed Derek and only fired some shots at her as they took off. Derek was the bait to lure Cameron into a trap (the water at the warehouse). No revelations there, but I always thought the AI (on the phone) was instructing the goon on how to pull her chip so they could disable her. It never occurred to me that the AI needed a chip FOR ITSELF. And not just any old chip. Cameron is "special". She has the most powerful neural net processor in the world — able to infiltrate entire traffic systems in a single bound! (Also it doesn't self-destruct when you pull it out).

Kaliba has coltan and the AI got endo schematics from John Henry when it hacked him with the worm. It had what it needed to build itself a body, but without a chip, a body would do it no good. Of course, it could've just used Cameron's body too, but y'know, John Henry said it was his "brother" so maybe advanced AIs have gender identity ;) Or maybe it actually needs to look like someone specific that's male.

So why did the AI need to be mobile? Who the fuck knows. It had the worm that could give it control of other computer systems and it had the backdoor access to military systems thanks to Fisher's handiwork. Why it would need to be a walking "human" to initiate judgment day, I haven't a clue. Seems to me everything was in place. Obviously not, though, or it would've already done it. So there's clearly more to be accomplished before the apocalypse can commence.

Onto John Henry...

He had the damaged chip from the Kaliba water cooler terminator that Weaver wanted him to try to gleen info from. I have no doubt that he succeeded in doing so and now has info about Kaliba. Perhaps he knows their targets (Savannah, himself and the whole damn human race!). Perhaps he knows their plans (apocalypse!). And perhaps he knows the current whereabouts of Kaliba (and the AI).

When Cameron enters the room, he shares this information. "My brother wanted your chip so he could [insert Kaliba master plan here]. I can stop him, but I'm tethered to this pretty box with the retconned 3 lights."

"That really is a pretty box." Cameron says. "You can put me in there and take my chip. Maybe Sarah will like me better if I have 3 dots anyway. I should probably leave John a note, though."

And this, my friends, makes my wacky theory of old work: Neither Cameron nor John Henry are in the future. They're both still in 2009. But the writers would probably do a little better with the dialog ;)



Comments

( 47 comments — Add a comment )
fig_aruna
Apr. 8th, 2010 10:22 am (UTC)
OMG UR RIGHT!

ILU!!

(HOLY SHIT...!)


fig_aruna
Apr. 8th, 2010 03:14 pm (UTC)
After OMGing myself back to sleep this morning (I'm really not sure how that works), I've come to think that JH probably did go to the future as that's the only way for Cameron's chip to be truly inaccessible for Kaliba. Not sure what he means to do in the future though or whether he expects Weaver to "rescue" him...
roxybisquaint
Apr. 8th, 2010 06:20 pm (UTC)
If John Henry just wanted to make sure Cameron's chip was inaccessible, he could've smashed it. Or maybe sent her through time alone. I think it's debatable whether her body could've gone through time if she was still "alive" with her chip in. We have precedence for it, though. In the pilot, Cromartie's head went through time with exposed metal. Even if we believe it was still covered in flesh at the moment it went through, metal would've been exposed at the based of the head.

Anyway, if Kaliba is the start of Skynet, it would be much more powerful in 18 years or whatever than it is now. So it doesn't make any sense to go try to stop it then. Also, I think one of John Henry's motivations is that he knew Kaliba was after Savannah. Jumping ahead give shim no chance of protecting her when she's a target in 2009.
fig_aruna
Apr. 8th, 2010 10:03 pm (UTC)
Like someone else said, I just feel that whatever's going on, Weaver, Cameron, and JH are all in on it. It's just a gut feeling, but I just can't see weaver going off into the future unless she was really going to join John Henry. John Henry wants to protect/save Savannah, but as Weaver said, her survival depends on his, and Kaliba was totally gunning for him in 2009. It just seems like Cameron made a deal with Weaver/JH.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 9th, 2010 01:25 am (UTC)
Well there's always the very slim chance that I'm way off base :P

I just can't see weaver going off into the future unless she was really going to join John Henry

Me either, but I think John Henry was able to fool her because he could anticipate her actions. In Born to Run, he was getting more in sync with Weaver. At first he was echoing he words, then he was saying things at the same time as her. Both he and Weaver looked confused about that and we never got any explanation for it. I think the next step would've been that he would be able to anticipate her - what she'd say and do.

He knew Weaver was contemplating moving him to protect him (mirroring the Sarah -John story) and I think he wanted to stay and meet/fight his brother instead. If Weaver knew where he'd gone, maybe he knew she'd come and bring him back (as she was going to do by jumping to the future). So he tricked her so that he could go do his thing (kind of like when John dove into the warehouse in Heavy Metal).


as Weaver said, her survival depends on his, and Kaliba was totally gunning for him in 2009

If John Henry got info from water cooler termie's chip, he'd know more than Weaver did about Kaliba.


We've all got our pet theories, I just figured I fill in a few more of the details of why I think JH is still in 2009 and tricked Weaver into jumping ahead.
fig_aruna
Apr. 9th, 2010 05:17 pm (UTC)
(D'oh. I just re-read my comment and am facepalming a little bit. I wrote it in the one minute I had before my doctor ushered me into his office, and I feel the brevity was a bit off-putting. Sorry! :()


Me either, but I think John Henry was able to fool her because he could anticipate her actions. In Born to Run, he was getting more in sync with Weaver. At first he was echoing he words, then he was saying things at the same time as her. Both he and Weaver looked confused about that and we never got any explanation for it. I think the next step would've been that he would be able to anticipate her - what she'd say and do.

Oh, man, I'd totally forgotten that part. I think it was just so out there (like Murch's line that John Henry is every wire, component, what have you), that I just erased it from my mind the moment the ep ended. That makes a lot of sense, and as you noted, TSCC really likes its mirrors, so I could see JH pulling a Heavy Metal.


The whole thing would really mean major failcake for John Connor, but... well... considering what I thought of his behavior overall in S2, a little failcake may be just what the doctor ordered. :p
roxybisquaint
Apr. 10th, 2010 07:48 am (UTC)
and I feel the brevity was a bit off-putting. Sorry! :()

Oh not at all. Don't worry about it. I do not require that everyone agree with me! And I could've let it alone, but I wanted to throw a bit more at you just cuz ;)

The whole thing would really mean major failcake for John Connor, but... well... considering what I thought of his behavior overall in S2, a little failcake may be just what the doctor ordered. :p

Indeed. He goes running off to find the robot and instead he finds people. And not just any people, but people that will clearly have a significant impact on him. John will come back a much better person.
spankulert
Apr. 8th, 2010 12:03 pm (UTC)
My brain always gives me the image of the "I'm sorry John" screen switching over to just "John?" right after he travels to the future. I find it highly amusing :p

But yes, I assume the other AI wanted the chip, thus using Derek as bait.
fig_aruna
Apr. 8th, 2010 03:08 pm (UTC)
That image is utter hilarity. ROFL
spankulert
Apr. 8th, 2010 05:05 pm (UTC)
With all those harddrives maintaining John Henry, how on earth would all that fit onto Cameron's chip with Cameron herself as well, without compromising the data? I mean, one flipping wire changes being different results ina slighly different John Henry. So one of my theories is that Cameron jumped ship, and is now taking ovar teh internetz! sitting on the harddrives.

But then again, split-personality robot has its hilarious advantages. Especially when CamHenry runs into John in the future. Yay awkwardness \o/
roxybisquaint
Apr. 8th, 2010 06:00 pm (UTC)
With all those harddrives maintaining John Henry, how on earth would all that fit onto Cameron's chip with Cameron herself as well, without compromising the data?

I think all that computer equipment in John Henry's room is all processors. The Turk is the basis of it all (the computer with the awesome operating system and AI program), but without the extra processing power, the John Henry couldn't develop to such an advanced level.


split-personality robot has its hilarious advantages.

True and if JH/Cam did jump to the future, I'd be looking very forward to John meeting up with him :P

spankulert
Apr. 8th, 2010 06:36 pm (UTC)
I think all that computer equipment in John Henry's room is all processors. The Turk is the basis of it all (the computer with the awesome operating system and AI program), but without the extra processing power, the John Henry couldn't develop to such an advanced level.

Ahhhh that makes sense. I'm not all that computer-savvy.

True and if JH/Cam did jump to the future, I'd be looking very forward to John meeting up with him

I have quite a few scenes in mind as well *g*

Oh btw, there's a promptathon going on at [community profile] coltanheart btw, if you wanna go leave some, or even jump into the fray yourself :D
roxybisquaint
Apr. 8th, 2010 08:05 pm (UTC)
there's a promptathon going on

Oh thanks for the info. Maybe I'll dive into that.

Edited at 2010-04-08 08:05 pm (UTC)
roxybisquaint
Apr. 8th, 2010 06:27 pm (UTC)
I keep wondering why they didn't just kill Derek in between the time they nabbed him and Cameron showed up. They didn't need him alive if he was just bait. So that must've wanted to interrogate him. But it wasn't about John or Sarah because Kaliba already knew where they were and had sent assassins. All I can figure is they knew Derek was a soldier from the future and they wanted info about future war or the resistance or something.
spankulert
Apr. 8th, 2010 06:37 pm (UTC)
Poor Derek's always getting interrogated *pets*
tackdriver56
Apr. 8th, 2010 12:32 pm (UTC)
But Kaliba already HAS terminators (being sent back?)
This is a chess game.

Cameron is a high-value piece; an asset to John Connor, Sarah Connor, and, as it turns out, to John Henry.

Kaliba apparently is an adversary to Weaver and John Henry. John Henry is more vulnerable, pinned to a server farm, less so if Cameron's chip grants him mobility.

Since Kaliba is already sending infiltrators back, and needs a chip, the smuggling logistics are trivial.

It's more important to deny Team Connor and the "third faction" access to Cameron's chip.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 8th, 2010 06:54 pm (UTC)
Re: But Kaliba already HAS terminators (being sent back?)
This is a chess game.

Yes and no. We've got the game of Go in the mix too. The rules have changed to some extent.


Cameron is a high-value piece; an asset to John Connor, Sarah Connor, and, as it turns out, to John Henry.

So is the queen in chess, but the Japanese won their chess match against Andy's Turk by pulling a Byrne-Fischer and sacrificing it.


Kaliba apparently is an adversary to Weaver and John Henry.

Where are you getting that from? Kaliba was trying to destroy Weaver and John Henry, not to mention kill Savannah.


Since Kaliba is already sending infiltrators back, and needs a chip, the smuggling logistics are trivial.

True and Skynet could've just made a chip for that purpose that wouldn't self-destruct when it got exposed to air. So why the Kaliba AI would need/want Cameron's chip specifically is unknown. That's why I defaulted to Cameron's chip being special - the most powerful neural net processor on earth (according to present-day John, anyway and he really has no way of knowing that).

But we do know Cameron's chip looks very different than all the other chips we've seen. It would lead me to believe it really is much more advanced than the chips used by any of the T-888s running around. Why Skynet isn't making those same chips for all its bots is part of the mystery.


It's more important to deny Team Connor and the "third faction" access to Cameron's chip.

I actually think Kaliba has come about because of the johnless future (the future he jumped into in BTR). We don't know when that path began, but I'm starting to suspect it could go all the way back to John putting Cameron's chip back in in S&D — that that moment could have started the series of events that ultimately lead to John making that leap into the future (and removing himself as leader of the resistance).

Kaliba seemed to be after Sarah and John because of their warehouse getting blown up by Weaver (which they thought Sarah and her son were responsible for). So the attack on Sarah and John in Lighthouse wasn't the traditional KILL JOHN CONNOR thing, it was about killing a present-day enemy.
bobmacpharson
Apr. 8th, 2010 06:59 pm (UTC)
Re: But Kaliba already HAS terminators (being sent back?)
I don't think "most powerful computer on earth" meant anything other than it was exponentially more powerful than whatever firewall the traffic-light-program had.

I think there may be some "specialness" to Cameron but I don't think it's something known to the rest of Skynet. I think it's far more likely that she merely had information (either about the Connors in the present day or from the Future War) that was important.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 9th, 2010 01:01 am (UTC)
Re: But Kaliba already HAS terminators (being sent back?)
I don't think it's something known to the rest of Skynet

How could Skynet not know? It created her and her chip. Maybe it didn't know the extent of how well that type of chip would ultimately function, though. Is that what you meant?
tackdriver56
Apr. 8th, 2010 08:34 pm (UTC)
Re: But Kaliba already HAS terminators (being sent back?)
"We've got the game of Go in the mix too. The rules have changed to some extent."
You’ve got me there. I can’t let go of the concept that the players have value beyond their position in the game-space.

"… the Japanese won their chess match against Andy's Turk by pulling a Byrne-Fischer and sacrificing (their queen)."
OK, so John has relinquished control, and Cameron initiated self sacrifice, to give John an advantage? Possibly, but Cameron was targeted by Kaliba, rather than offering herself to them.

"Kaliba was trying to destroy Weaver and John Henry, not to mention kill Savannah."
OK, definitely an adversary. I just have this nagging suspicion that the HK attack was pretty lame, and could have been a confidence ploy orchestrated by Weaver to entice John to follow Weaver/John Henry/Cameron’s Chip.

Since Kaliba is already sending infiltrators back, and needs a chip, the smuggling logistics are trivial.

"I defaulted to Cameron's chip being special - the most powerful neural net processor on earth."
The inverse view of this was Cromartie’s assertion that Cameron’s chip is damaged, that she’s making mistakes because of the damage. Funny that it turns out to be John Henry’s life boat. I’m taking the position that it WAS damaged in the explosion, and the part of her uniqueness stems from the rerouting she did to patch around the damage, more so than some superiority of the initial design.

"we do know Cameron's chip looks very different than all the other chips we've seen…. Why Skynet isn't making those same chips for all its bots is part of the mystery."
Was it different from Vic's chip? I don’t know, maybe she was a prototype, got captured, reprogrammed, and Sky Net said “Crap! Back to the drawing board…”.

“I actually think Kaliba has come about because of the john-less future”
There were actually TWO John-less time segments, both involving Cameron, which brings me back around to an earlier view that: Protecting John is a Bad Thing. Leaders are tempered in the fires of adversity.

AI is one of those technologies which have reached critical mass. The building blocks are present in so many places, that the attainment of the technology, of an implementation, is inevitable. Kaliba’s AI may be the result of Danny Dyson’s stack of blocks. Kaliba’s instance of Sky Net may be the result of the elimination of its previously successful competition by Sarah, by Derek, by John and Cameron.

John needed to develop a closer relationship with the technology, to turn it to his advantage. He could not achieve this by burning Cameron.

snip “the attack on Sarah and John in Lighthouse wasn't the traditional KILL JOHN CONNOR thing, it was about killing a present-day enemy.”
I’m confused by this. Sky Net has sent Grays back to mess with the timeline, but isn’t giving Kaliba useful targeting information. (Winston) put a tracking bug in Sarah’s breast, presumably to find and capture John, and water boy goes after the Weavers instead of the Connors. Perhaps you’re right: John is already irrelevant, and Derek was only killed because he was in the way.

Ponder, I must.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 9th, 2010 12:55 am (UTC)
Re: But Kaliba already HAS terminators (being sent back?)
OK, so John has relinquished control, and Cameron initiated self sacrifice, to give John an advantage? Possibly, but Cameron was targeted by Kaliba, rather than offering herself to them.

No, but she presumably offered herself to John Henry. Until we know more about what was going on in the future at the point that Cameron came back, it's hard to come up with a solid theory on who sent her and what her full mission was or whether she sacrificed herself or was sacrificed by whoever sent her (which may or may not have been future!John).



I just have this nagging suspicion that the HK attack was pretty lame, and could have been a confidence ploy orchestrated by Weaver to entice John to follow Weaver/John Henry/Cameron’s Chip.

That's an angle I hadn't considered — that Weaver really was behind Kaliba and used it to create the illusion of a common enemy. I'm not inclined to not agree. Even though I see Weaver as ultimately being bad for mankind, I actually do believe her when she said she was building something to stop Skynet. Maybe she's got me duped :P



The inverse view of this was Cromartie’s assertion that Cameron’s chip is damaged, that she’s making mistakes because of the damage. Funny that it turns out to be John Henry’s life boat. I’m taking the position that it WAS damaged in the explosion, and the part of her uniqueness stems from the rerouting she did to patch around the damage, more so than some superiority of the initial design.

Cameron's chip was definitely damaged in the explosion. Her own systems check said that right afterwards (even showed the location of the damage on screen). I agree that the resulting glitchiness is part of what makes her unique now. It's made her unpredictable like a human (the ability to "cross against the light").



Was it different from Vic's chip? I don’t know, maybe she was a prototype, got captured, reprogrammed, and Sky Net said “Crap! Back to the drawing board…”.

Yes, very clearly different and all the chips we've seen appear to look like Vick's. I think Cameron being a prototype is a good probability. She was being sent as an infiltrator to John's camp to kill him so I guess Skynet wanted her to be better and smarter than the standard T-888.



There were actually TWO John-less time segments, both involving Cameron, which brings me back around to an earlier view that: Protecting John is a Bad Thing. Leaders are tempered in the fires of adversity.

Two? You think BTR was the second time he'd jumped forward and removed himself from the equation? When was the other? I think I'm going to need some details on that theory.
tackdriver56
Apr. 9th, 2010 03:10 am (UTC)
Re: But Kaliba already HAS terminators (being sent back?)
Bank Vault TDE. John lost, what, 10 years by skipping down-time, while AI tech developed.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 9th, 2010 03:36 am (UTC)
Re: But Kaliba already HAS terminators (being sent back?)
That doesn't create a johnless future because he jumped to a point before j-day. The events of T2 bumped j-day to 2011. Sarah and John landed in 2007.
tackdriver56
Apr. 9th, 2010 12:04 pm (UTC)
Re: But Kaliba already HAS terminators (being sent back?)
Jumping down-time created a gap of 10? John-less years. This was time when he could have been keeping up with developments in technology, learning to reprogram the terminators, developing a social network to seed the resistance.

Referring back to T1, John never prevented Judgement Day: he revealed his skills and rose to lead the resistance while in Century Work Camp.

I would question whether he knows enough, post BTR, to BE THAT GUY, as a result of two terminators jumping him to "safety".

I'm rooting for his exposure to the reality of Judgement Day to stiffen his resolve, and to escape back to the past, to build the resistance.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 10th, 2010 06:34 am (UTC)
Re: But Kaliba already HAS terminators (being sent back?)
Eight Johnless years, but when I say "johnless future" I'm specifically referring to a post-apocalyptic future where John Connor wasn't there to form the resistance and no one knows who he is.

I would question whether he knows enough, post BTR, to BE THAT GUY

I don't think he's even close yet. He still has too many issues to deal with. I'm sure his time there will help him deal with them, though.

I'm rooting for his exposure to the reality of Judgement Day to stiffen his resolve, and to escape back to the past, to build the resistance.

I don't think it's his resolve that's in question, nor his abilities. I think John's biggest problem is he's running away from humanity. "Human beings can't be replaced." He's had so much loss, so much pain and he feels like it's all his fault. He can't deal with it. So he turns to the machine — turns to Cameron because it's an emotionally safer place for him to be.

But what happens when he leaps forward to find her? He runs into humanity — human beings struggling for their very survival. And of course, they're all people that are going to impact him on a personal, emotional level. He'll come back a very different person and it won't be a harder John Connor. That's where I see it going.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 9th, 2010 12:55 am (UTC)
Re: But Kaliba already HAS terminators (being sent back?)
Cont'd

Kaliba’s AI may be the result of Danny Dyson’s stack of blocks. Kaliba’s instance of Sky Net may be the result of the elimination of its previously successful competition by Sarah, by Derek, by John and Cameron.

I have no doubt Danny Dyson is involved with Kaliba, but no strong stance on whether it's voluntary or involuntary (I lean towards the latter, though). And I do think the emergence of Kaliba >> Skynet is the direct result of Andy's fate. In fact, life_on_queen has theorized before that maybe someone stole Turk 1 before Sarah burned down Andy's house and it ended up in the hands of whoever is behind Kaliba, while Turk 2 ended up in Weaver's hands. It's an interesting idea and would fit the "Cain and Abel" theme (born of the same father, but raised differently). Or it could be that they're two completely unrelated AIs that are only linnked through the Cyberdyne code (which would in essence make Miles Dysons their father).



John needed to develop a closer relationship with the technology, to turn it to his advantage. He could not achieve this by burning Cameron.

Well, I don't actually subscribe to the idea that John Connor is (eventually) an awesome leader and savior of humanity because he learns to care about the metal. Maybe he learns to balance an appreciation and respect for technology with "people matter, they're all that matter", but I would be sorely disappointed if he story was that we can avert the apocalypse if we all just love our machines and treat them like humans.



I’m confused by this. Sky Net has sent Grays back to mess with the timeline, but isn’t giving Kaliba useful targeting information. (Winston) put a tracking bug in Sarah’s breast, presumably to find and capture John, and water boy goes after the Weavers instead of the Connors. Perhaps you’re right: John is already irrelevant, and Derek was only killed because he was in the way.

That's exactly why I think John is already irrelevant by the time the attack happens in To the Lighthouse. I don't think they had a clue (or cared) about who he was. He and Sarah were simply Kaliba enemies. Derek getting killed was, I think, just a machine killing one of the people that were interfering with his mission to kill Savannah.

The Water Cooler terminator did show an interest in Sarah when she was getting arrested in Adam Raised a Cain and when he heard her name on the news in BTR. That implies to me that he knew the name "Sarah Connor". If John Connor had been his default primary target, he would've ditched his other mission and come after her to find John. So in this johnless future, I think Sarah Connor must still be known to Skynet even if John isn't (but obviously she's not a primary target).
indiefic
Apr. 8th, 2010 02:06 pm (UTC)
Oooh, good theory!

I'm tethered to this pretty box with the retconned 3 lights.

BWAH!
bobmacpharson
Apr. 8th, 2010 03:03 pm (UTC)
I like the first part of the theory. It definitely makes sense for them to be trying to get Cameron's chip intact, but I don't see why that has to have anything to do with Kaliba building "itself" a body. It would work just as well if it just needed information or another robot soldier.

The question that John Henry and Cameron staying in the past begs is... why did John go to the future then? It makes sense to me for Cameron to go to the future to test/teach John in isolation for a while. (And forcing him to choose Cameron-in-Cromartie over Allison is a fairly meaningful lesson, which is what Dekker implied was going to be the case). It *might* make sense for Weaver to do the something similar. I'm assuming that whatever's going on, Weaver, Henry and Cameron are all in on it.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 8th, 2010 07:40 pm (UTC)
We know Kaliba built at least one drone, but the coltan was referred to by Sarah as "endoskeleton metal". She never even saw any at Desert Heat & Air so I think that line was for our benefit.

So we've got Kaliba with the right kind of metal and the endo schematics. To me, that adds up to wanting to build an endo. Why did Weaver need a body for John Henry? We don't know the game plan, but if she wanted her Ai to have a body, I think it makes sense that the opposing force wanted it's AI to have a body too. But a body without the ability to untether and go mobile is kind of pointless.

I assume Weaver and JH are the good guys of the two AI teams and Kaliba is the bad guys. I think Weaver and John Henry basically asking for Cameron's chip while Kaliba tried to take it by force sort of reinforce that. the opposing sides mirroring each other actions in a race to the finish (whatever that is).


The question that John Henry and Cameron staying in the past begs is... why did John go to the future then? It makes sense to me for Cameron to go to the future to test/teach John in isolation for a while. (And forcing him to choose Cameron-in-Cromartie over Allison is a fairly meaningful lesson, which is what Dekker implied was going to be the case). It *might* make sense for Weaver to do the something similar. I'm assuming that whatever's going on, Weaver, Henry and Cameron are all in on it.

John went to the future because he thought that's where John Henry had gone with Cameron's chip.

If Cameron wanted to get John away from Sarah and teach him things in isolation, she had the opportunity. Sarah was locked up in prison. They had new IDs. Cameron could've taken John on the road and had him all to herself. So no, I don't see that as a reasonable scenario.

I can't think of any reason why Cameron would think John needed to see the human she was modeled after. Intentionally or not, she'd already succeeded in getting him to choose metal over human anyway. But even from a jameron angle, Cameron doesn't need to have time jumped to be there. There's no reason why she (and Sarah too) can't be walking around in that future, having gotten there the natural way.
tackdriver56
Apr. 9th, 2010 12:16 pm (UTC)
Aiiiiiiiii ain't got no bodddddddddy...
"... if she wanted her Ai to have a body, I think it makes sense that the opposing force wanted it's AI to have a body too."

There are different philosophies at work here.
John Henry was vulnerable because he was tethered to and encapsulated within a server farm.

I understand the Kaliba AI to be a more distributed intelligence, exploiting the redundancy of the Internet to make itself harder to kill.

John Henry can be killed by someone who knows how to find him, unless he can escape.

The Kaliba AI is vulnerable when it launches its nuclear attack, so maybe it wants a Terminator (with chip) as a self-portable backup, a way to go hide in a bomb shelter to escape the EMP.

"Cameron (and Sarah don't) need to have time jumped to be there."
True. So there's more story to tell! YayZ!
roxybisquaint
Apr. 10th, 2010 06:41 am (UTC)
Re: Aiiiiiiiii ain't got no bodddddddddy...
I understand the Kaliba AI to be a more distributed intelligence, exploiting the redundancy of the Internet to make itself harder to kill.

Hmm. I got the impression that was just the worm that was running through the internet, not the AI itself.

John Henry can be killed by someone who knows how to find him, unless he can escape.

And if John Henry does escape by untethering, he'd have the advantage. The only way the brother AI could find him (or battle him?) is if he was also in a body that was untethered.

The Kaliba AI is vulnerable when it launches its nuclear attack, so maybe it wants a Terminator (with chip) as a self-portable backup, a way to go hide in a bomb shelter to escape the EMP.

Could be. The AI could be protected by heading on over to Depot 37 and hanging out with Carter ;)


True. So there's more story to tell! YayZ!

So much more! And I want it!!!!!
gega_cai
Apr. 8th, 2010 03:32 pm (UTC)
So, Cameron and John Henry sent nothing to the future? They did that to trick the Connors and Weaver?

So, are you saying that Cameron's AI was active outside of Cameron's chip? Somehow, she programed a doppelganger, so to speak, of her programing and built Kaliba since 1997 or since S1, after they jumped through time?

I guess she could have been creating a company while the Connors slept. The library might not have been an every night kind of thing for her.

Interesting

Edited at 2010-04-08 03:32 pm (UTC)
roxybisquaint
Apr. 8th, 2010 07:51 pm (UTC)
So, Cameron and John Henry sent nothing to the future? They did that to trick the Connors and Weaver?

Yes. I definitely think John Henry tricked Weaver, but I'm still undecided on whether Cameron tricked John into jumping or if that was something she didn't anticipate happening. But I lean heavily towards Cameron having tricked John because the looped "I'm sorry John" message made it appear she wasn't there. She could've halted him by interacting and letting him know she was there. The other possibility is that she had to trick Weaver into thinking she wasn't there and the John jumping was a side effect of that.


So, are you saying that Cameron's AI was active outside of Cameron's chip? Somehow, she programed a doppelganger, so to speak, of her programing and built Kaliba since 1997 or since S1, after they jumped through time?

No no no, I don't mean Cameron was building Kaliba.

I'm just saying Cameron was on The Turk — that she and John Henry basically switched places. He is on her chip now and she is in The Turk. The connection I was making with Kaliba is that both brothers (John Henry and the Kaliba AI) wanted/needed Cameron's chip.Kaliba tried to take it by force and failed. John Henry got it by asking. And now that JH is untethered and armed with info about Kaliba, he'll be on his way to face his AI brother in a computer vs computer showdown... Remember John's line from Queen's Gambit? "There programs are too powerful to play humans anymore."

tackdriver56
Apr. 9th, 2010 12:24 pm (UTC)
"Cameron was on The Turk"
Logically, this makes the most sense.

From a story telling viewpoint, we can get a LOT more mileage, if Cam and John Henry are cohabiting and both conscious on Cam's chip.

This can be everything from debates over specific issues and decisions, to assimilating each other's mannerisms, as friends and couples do.

(I wonder if Summer could learn Garret's creepy smirk?)
roxybisquaint
Apr. 10th, 2010 07:12 am (UTC)
Re: "Cameron was on The Turk"
My thing is I can't let go of Cameron. She's too good of a character and too important to the story. If she's on the chip in John Henry's head, then I don't see her body surviving. Sarah would make sure it's destroyed. BUT, if a minute after John jumped away, Cameron started communicating with Sarah on that screen, it would change everything.

Sarah's impulse would be to destroy the Turk and destroy Cameron's body. But if Cameron is actually there in that room, Sarah wouldn't destroy her because she's the only one who can tell her WTF just happened. Ellison might suggest they plug the cord into Cameron and presto, we've got a John Henry type of set-up with Cameron. It keeps the character fully intact and she'd eventually get her chip back somehow.

Of course the big problem with that is that the building is potentially in bad shape and emergency responders are on the way. But we know that basement is still in existence in the future, so the entire building doesn't come crashing down. And maybe that section of the basement is hidden, so police and firefighters won't even know it exists (or maybe Ellison goes to meet responders and tells them everything's fine down there and diverts them away).

What I like about this idea is it places John in the future dealing with people, which is the thing I believe he was running from. And it leaves Sarah having to work with the thing she hates: metal. She'd have Cameron and potentially John Henry to deal with as she tries to figure out what the hell is going on and battle Kaliba.

Cameron's flesh would heal itself and repairs could be made with parts from the water cooler terminator (I'm sure Weaver saved that body). And heck, she could get an eye from him too. They made a big deal about the parts — Cameron was saving them for repairs and Sarah didn't care and burned them anyway. But now, she'll need Cameron's help, so she'll get her those parts, help her make repairs.

I've spent, um, a lot of time pondering how this John-jumping-to-the-future thing could work and I really think this makes it have meaning to both Sarah and John. They're both forced to deal with the things they've been running from. When John comes back, he and Sarah will both be in a better place, emotionally, as well as have a better understanding of each other. And then... awesome Skynet-fighting team of Sarah, John and Cameron will be back in action. And maybe Derek too if he comes back with John.

The end.
gothamite66
Apr. 8th, 2010 03:43 pm (UTC)
Can I add to your wacky theory?

Go all the way back to Samson and Delilah when Weaver is talking about the one who crosses over the light. I never thought she was talking about the Turk like everyone else. The Turk simply hadn't crossed over yet. I've always felt she was refering to Cameron.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 8th, 2010 08:02 pm (UTC)
Can I add to your wacky theory?

Yes please!


Go all the way back to Samson and Delilah when Weaver is talking about the one who crosses over the light. I never thought she was talking about the Turk like everyone else. The Turk simply hadn't crossed over yet. I've always felt she was refering to Cameron.

Interesting, but I don't think I agree. I don't think Weaver knew anything about Cameron being in the present until, hmm, Adam Raised a Cain maybe? Once she knew she was there, though, I think she wanted that chip and that's why she sent the "will you join us" message to her via Ellison.

At the time Weaver first talked about a computer that could cross against the light, I assumed she was referring to The Turk. In hindsight, it wasn't the Turk as is, but the potential for the advanced AI she could create from it: John Henry.

Edited at 2010-04-08 08:03 pm (UTC)
gothamite66
Apr. 9th, 2010 01:52 am (UTC)
Weaver had to have know Cameron was in the present. Cameron's face is all over the security video from the bank explosion along with Sarah and John. Certainly Weaver researched Ellison before she gave him the job offer. Any research into Ellison's job performance with the FBI would at least also include the files of his investigation of Sarah Connor and would most likely include that video footage.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 9th, 2010 03:05 am (UTC)
There's no arguing with that logic! You're right. Weaver definitely knew all along.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 9th, 2010 12:00 am (UTC)
I was just thinking that Cameron does have the ability to cross against the light since her glitch. That's what has made her unpredictable and sometimes she doesn't even know why she makes the choices she does.
gothamite66
Apr. 9th, 2010 01:54 am (UTC)
Heh, you too can cross against the light and join me in my lunacy. ;P
phantomwriter05
Apr. 8th, 2010 08:09 pm (UTC)
So ...

intersting theory but ...

I've had this theory since I saw born to run for the first time.

but the way I see it JH and Cameron merged there conciousnesses together ... so that you have Cameron in the drivers seat with all of JH's devlopment replacing the skynet hardware.

but like I said ... I've had this theory for months so I think it's high time to pay some royalies for this plagured theory!

LOL ;)
roxybisquaint
Apr. 8th, 2010 08:16 pm (UTC)
Hee. You should post these theories! Or maybe you have and I need to dig through your journal to find the wacky goodness?

Even if we agree on the first part — that the Kaliba AI wanted Cameron's chip for a body it was going to build so it could be mobile, we clearly differ on where it goes next.

Sharing a chip and having Cameron in the driver's seat is different. Where my theory goes is to a Cain vs Abel, computer vs computer, John Henry vs the Kaliba AI showdown. And I've got Cameron on The Turk.
tackdriver56
Apr. 9th, 2010 12:29 pm (UTC)
Cameron on the Turk...
I'm curious where you would go with her from here.
She would be vulnerable, as John Henry was, to a physical attack by Kaliba's goons.

Could she mount an internet attack on Kaliba?
roxybisquaint
Apr. 10th, 2010 07:22 am (UTC)
Re: Cameron on the Turk...
Oops. I went long on that reply to your other comment and I think I sort of answered this somewhat too. I've always got more to say, though ;)

Yeah, I guess Cameron could potentially be vulnerable to an attack if she's got internet access like JH did, but Murch said he fixed up the seurity after the attack on JH and there wasn't any follow-up attack.

Mounting an attack on Kaliba via the web is a definite possibility. We already saw Cameron infiltrate an entire city's traffic system from one traffic light box. So I think the ability is there to do something similar over the web. And maybe that's exactly why she's "different".

But what we don't know is how much of that being different (more advanced, I assume) was dependent on her processor and how much on programming. Is her processor more powerful than that entire rack of processors JH had? Or would she be fine running off that rack of processors JH was using? Don't know, but I'd bet that stuff would do that job.

Edited at 2010-04-10 07:23 am (UTC)
intrepid01
Apr. 13th, 2010 12:38 pm (UTC)
Seriously, One year out and you're still finding interesting stuff to talk about? :)

Anyway, to the theory, you left out an important vector on your argument, Mr Murch said that changing one component changes what John Henry is, I wonder what downloading into Cameron's chip will do?

I think it's fairly obvious why the Kaliba AI would want a body, after all, it's a choice between a fully advanced mobile armoured body capable of defending itself, against being helpless in a box tethered to a basement somewhere.
But it's also clear it has access to the hardware to achieve full mobility, and that includes a chip, and if Kaliba is skynet, it has access to the same type of chip Cameron has.

Cameron's chip is also damaged, but perhaps that's why it's so special, to tie Mr Murch's observations of changes in hardware changing software, perhaps Cameron's chip is now truly a unique piece of hardware, one that can't be replicated through simple manufacture.

Cameron might not be the wheel that turns events, but she's certainly the axle that all the factions are turning around, John, John Henry, Kaliba, Jessie's faction. (because I still believe she wasn't acting independently)
It also makes John's reason for going after her chip less "Jamerony" and more a tactical decision.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 16th, 2010 06:41 pm (UTC)
Seriously, One year out and you're still finding interesting stuff to talk about? :)

But of course! :D



Mr Murch said that changing one component changes what John Henry is, I wonder what downloading into Cameron's chip will do?

I fear it could make John Henry confused and prone to anger. Even if he's planning to go destroy his brother, the brother could perhaps sway JH into joining him or letting him have the chip.



But it's also clear it has access to the hardware to achieve full mobility, and that includes a chip, and if Kaliba is skynet, it has access to the same type of chip Cameron has.

You'd think Skynet could just send an endo back to Kaliba for the AI to use. But if Skynet could do that, why didn't it? Maybe Kaliba isn't young Skynet at all? We're missing pieces to this puzzle!



Cameron's chip is also damaged, but perhaps that's why it's so special, to tie Mr Murch's observations of changes in hardware changing software, perhaps Cameron's chip is now truly a unique piece of hardware, one that can't be replicated through simple manufacture.

Cameron is definitely less predictable with chip damage. From Skynet's viewpoint, that would obviously be a bad thing but I'm not sure how Skynet would even know Cameron has damage. Assuming it did know, though, maybe that's why no other machines we've seen use that same type of chip. Maybe Skynet saw it as a flaw that the chip could keep functioning in a less logical way if it sustained that kind of damage. I think that's a bit of a stretch, but there must be some reason why we've never seen another chip like Cameron's.



Cameron might not be the wheel that turns events, but she's certainly the axle that all the factions are turning around, John, John Henry, Kaliba, Jessie's faction. (because I still believe she wasn't acting independently). It also makes John's reason for going after her chip less "Jamerony" and more a tactical decision.

"He got her chip. He's got her." Add to that John asking Weaver where Cameron's body is as soon as the land in the future and I don't think there's any chance his jumping was even remotely a tactical decision. But I do agree that Cameron's chip is a crucial element in all this and season 3 no doubt would have revealed some if not all of Cameron's story.

I really hated how they turned Jesse's story into a weak story about love and loss. It was so much stronger when it seemed like she was part of a faction of the resistance that was opposed to John's use of metal. Maybe she still was, but I think her motivation being so personal in the end watered it down considerably. I think it's a dead story anyway now, though. Once we got the new johnless future into the mix, whatever future Jesse came from would seem to be irrelevant now.
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Roxy Bisquaint...

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