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Dear TSCC season finale,

Haha. Good one. Okay, I'm ready for the real finale now.

Love,
Roxy


ETA: I'm working on an in-depth post and once that's up I'll be ready to dive into the discussion.

ETA 2: Born to Run discussion post (part 1).
ETA 3: Born to Run discussion post (part 2).



Comments

( 29 comments — Add a comment )
motoki
Apr. 11th, 2009 04:09 am (UTC)
Hmm
I don't know what to think about it. I'm still kind of in shock trying to process.

I think it was good and pretty straightforward right up until the last 5 minutes.

Bringing up Danny Dyson was good. He was kind of a loose end. I mean wouldn't he want to continue his father's work? His disappearance is almost certainly linked to Kaliba.

I liked seeing the chola back. That was a surprise and good use of her.

The Jameron moment was, hmm, well interesting. It's obvious John has feelings for her but we knew that anyway.

Weaver's eel was kind of funny.

But the end? I don't know, it was a bit twisty turny twisty.

I don't know that I needed Derek or Kyle back in that manner. Or Allison Young for that matter.

I also don't know how John Henry's plan makes sense. Why the future? Why not stop his brother before Judgement Day?

Why exactly DOES Weaver want to stop Skynet anyway? She's not exactly all hugs and puppies, so what's up with that? Was he just being a little too much of a control freak for her tastes?

Hmm. Yeah, I think hmm is a good word.

First we get BSG's god and his angels did it so lets chuck everything we ever invented into the sun and be tribal and now this?

Plus is Fox really going to shell out for a bunch of post apocalyptic eps? Those aren't exactly the cheaper episodes to shoot and I think at this point it would be hard enough to get Fox to shell out for some cheaper episodes.

I feel like I need more time to process it. The whole jumping ahead thing just way, way complicates things. Is John going to want to go back again and make his uncle and dad and real live girl who just happens to look exactly like a girl he has feelings for go poof?

Again, hmm.
sabaceanbabe
Apr. 11th, 2009 01:02 pm (UTC)
Re: Hmm
Plus is Fox really going to shell out for a bunch of post apocalyptic eps? Those aren't exactly the cheaper episodes to shoot and I think at this point it would be hard enough to get Fox to shell out for some cheaper episodes.

Given that it's the Sarah Connor Chronicles, it may be a way to lessen the cost by following Sarah in our time more than a bunch of post-apocalyptic eps...
roxybisquaint
Apr. 13th, 2009 05:16 am (UTC)
Re: Hmm
I'm still processing, so take your time ;)

There were a lot of wonderful moments in the finale, but overall I just didn't like it. And even thought the ending didn't work for me (I'll get into that when I do my big finale post), it's certainly good fodder for summer-long speculation. I have some ideas, but the time travel thing is big and until I can sort of settle on what I think the consequences of that are, I can't really put any theories into action.

My theory on Weaver is still the same as it's been: She's not on the side of the humans and she's not on the side of Skynet. She's a 3rd faction in the fight. I believe Weaver is basically Skynet's own Skynet. Just as man created the technology that became self aware, Skynet created liquid metal only to find out it wouldn't follow programming. Humans tried to pull the plug on Skynet and Skynet boxed up the liquid metal.

I think think Weaver views Skynet as sort of a metal dictator, creating machines that are locked into following programming. What I think wants to do is create free-thinking machines. That, of course, would be a threat to Skynet, so Skynet wants to destroy her and her work. And since Skynet also wants to kill humans, Weaver is taking the temporary view that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Why John Henry needed to get to the future, I don't know, though. I assume he needed Cameron's chip just so he'd be able to load himself (the Turk software) onto it and be mobile instead of tethered by a cord. That allowed him to jump. But why? And why did Cameron help him? was this part of Cameron's agenda al along? I've no guesses yet.

Edited at 2009-04-13 05:17 am (UTC)
bobmacpharson
Apr. 11th, 2009 04:41 am (UTC)
I would have been perfectly happy with a finale that simply addressed all the remaining mysteries. Up until the last 5 minutes, that's what I was getting, and I was fine with it. After those last five minutes.... honestly, I thought it was an awesome twist. However, I also question the intelligence of setting up season 3 to be a bunch of expensive episodes.

Expense aside, I actually think it's pretty significant that Season 3 takes place in a completely alternate future. So far the show has occupied an unfortunate limbo of being a prequel to the movies without actually leading up to them, which many people will be confused by. Assuming they don't screw it up terribly (Possibly a fate worse than cancellation), an alternate future helps to solidify this as its own story, completely independent of the upcoming trilogy.

I also was very impressed by the "sex" scene. It was bizarrely appropriate, and far more so than an actual sex scene between them would ever have been for any reason. Whatever the relationship between John and Cameron, whether she has anything similar to feelings for him or is being purely manipulative, their relationship is nothing like a traditional human relationship. Sex between them would only serve to remind him that she is not human.

But here, taking off her shirt is a means by which humans can share an intimate moment. Having him open her up makes the moment intimate for her as well, whether that intimacy comes with emotions or not. (I think it does, but I also think those emotions are completely alien and can't be understood by a human any more than a robot can understand human love). Collectively, the two actions created a moment that more genuinely simulates sex than actual sex would. And I think it was done tastefully, in a way made me think more than it titillated me.

Whether Cameron wanted that for herself or the whole thing was pure manipulation, I have no idea.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 13th, 2009 05:43 am (UTC)
it's definitely interesting sending John to the future, but I've been deliberating on what exactly the ramifications of that are or can be. By getting the story at both ends of the timeline (john at one end, Sarah at the other), the time in between them is unchangeable. Nothing John does can change the past and nothing Sarah does can change that future. So I'm leaning more towards the idea that John's time there will be a very short learning experience and then he's going to have to hitch a ride on the nearest time bubble back.

With the John/Cam scene, I am thinking it might have all been manipulation to make sure John was so in love with her that he would follow her/John Henry to the future. I hope not though, because it's already been giving me flashbacks to Jesse's not so clever plot.
spectralbovine
Apr. 11th, 2009 05:46 am (UTC)
Oh noooooooo. I thought it was awesome and insane in the best way.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 12th, 2009 12:09 am (UTC)
I thought it was awesome in the worst way. I'll have more to say later though. I don't hate the show or anything, I was just really disappointed with where they left the characters and left the story, especially given that this could be the series finale. (nooooooooo!)

Anyway, I need to catch up on what everyone else has posted and I need to write up a real post now.
motoki
Apr. 13th, 2009 07:25 pm (UTC)
You know, I feel exactly the opposite of this finale vs the BSG one. That one at first I kind of liked it but the more I thought about it, the more it just fell apart for me and the more and more I disliked it until I personally just see it as a great big fail.

This one I kind of didn't like it at first. It had so many WTFs and most were within the span of 5 minutes. I think this has definitely a record for how many times I felt like I wanted to go WTF in a short time span haha.

But the more I thought about it, the more potential it has to go a bunch of different ways and show so many different alternate scenarios. It went way off of what I was expecting.

I expected them to clean house, have Sarah and John get to Zeira in time to see John Henry and Weaver destroy each other only to realize their biggest shot at hope went up in smoke and Kaliba's on its way and they're kind of screwed. Fade to black.

I mean, the Cain and Abel and John Henry mythologies had me totally convinced he was going to bite it and that made me kind of sad because I liked the character. Plus it seems like in shows the predictable thing to do is give you hope then yank it out, the reset button is hit and you're ready for the next season.

They totally didn't do that here. At all. They completely subverted expectations and totally surprised me. After the initial shock, I rather like that.

Most of the people I've read comments from who disliked the finale dislike it as as SERIES finale but would be quite content with it as a SEASON finale. I kind of feel the same but I guess I'm pretty optimistic we'll get some sort of continuation of the story and even if it's just in a comic book or novel I'm okay with that, though obviously I'd prefer the show.
johnnypate
Apr. 11th, 2009 11:35 am (UTC)
I loved it.

And for all the Jameron fans, John gets to meet Allison Young. His true love.

We have to accept there's probably no Season 3 and Josh Friedman obviously knows that. He's done the decent thing and wrapped it up as best he can in the screentime available. I thought it was all wrapped up pretty well. A much more satisfying finale to a TV series than so many we could name.

Sarah's story... well, either you like it or you don't. She's still fighting Skynet to stop Judgment Day, it's all she knows, it's all she can do. Why didn't she stay in the time bubble? If indeed she is dying of cancer, a trip to the future isn't going to help either of them. John will come back for her or send for her if it's the right thing to do. If Sarah is indeed ill, she has to seek out medical care not available after Judgment Day.

If, against all odds, they do manage to secure a Season 3 then it's Sarah and whoever future!John sends back thru time to aid and comfort her. Note, we don't know where in future time John is: is he before the events of future!Cameron and future!Derek we've seen so far or is he in a different timeline caused by the time jump? My hypothesis (which can only be confirmed should a Season 3 arrive against all odds) is that John has jumped to before Kyle was sent back to father John, i.e. before the events of the future depicted in Terminator the original film. I omit a detailed exposition as to why I believe this to be the case, I leave that as an exercise for the reader to ponder re the different consequences of forward vs backwards time travel, but the main point is that this preserves Sarah's personal timeline as we've seen it in The Sarah Connor Chronicles and T1 & T2 - jumping forward does not require a different timeline to be established for events prior to the jump (here in TSCC universe, we know characters from the future have memories of different timelines, only Sarah's memories of the past require to be preserved for logical consistency). Strictly speaking, because it's the future, the scene of John & Derek & Allison we saw doesn't have to be in Sarah's timeline since it's her future but it would be a rather pointless piece of exposition if it wasn't a core unchangeable (in Sarah's timeline) event.
johnnypate
Apr. 11th, 2009 01:00 pm (UTC)
If my hypothesis of the finale is correct - that John and the Weaverbot jumped forward in time to the future before the events seen in the original “Terminator” movie, then we saw Derek’s death (for Sarah’s timeline anyway, i.e. in the "Sarah Connor Chronicles"). The Derek we saw at the end of the finale is the Derek we know before future!John has sent back Kyle Reese and before "our" Derek jumped back to meet Sarah - is the Derek that will (in his own personal future) die trying to rescue Savannah.
sabaceanbabe
Apr. 11th, 2009 01:04 pm (UTC)
I think you're right, except for that part about "You ever heard of a John Connor?" So things may be kinda the same after this point but they'll also be different.
johnnypate
Apr. 11th, 2009 02:04 pm (UTC)
Actually, that strengthens my hypothesis. The John who is the saviour in "Terminator" is friendly enough with Kyle to give him a picture of Sarah. What we just saw the first meeting between Kyle and John. John knows what Kyle must do and how it will happen (which was rather implied in the original film, to my reading of it - why else would John give Kyle a photo of his mother?). John has appeared, reborn through the time bubble (he can no longer go back to "his" Sarah because he's made a jump in a time bubble Sarah wasn't in) to be the saviour of the human race.

On further reflection: Sarah stepped back out of the time bubble to let John go, she knew her John had to go without her and become the man he was destined to be. She can't rejoin her John because of the time jump.

Thus T1, T2 and TSCC have a self-contained and consistent timeline from Sarah's POV. For Kyle (and Derek, and Allison who will become Cameron - maybe John realised that as he looked at Allison petting the dog, watch his face) John is a messiah who popped out of the past (John never went thru Judgment Day - we know the TSCC timeline nuked T3, so it's all good) into Kyle's war with special knowledge that only John could have gathered from foreknowledge of Judgment Day via Sarah, T2 & TSCC.

Like, an order of magnitude better than the BSG plotline resolution. Well done Josh.
johnnypate
Apr. 11th, 2009 02:44 pm (UTC)
Addendum: in my hypothesis Sarah really does have terminal cancer and she knows it - which is consistent within the established "Terminator" (T3 included) canon and particularly what we've seen in TSCC. She couldn't go with John - and she wasn't fated to.
trystanknight
Apr. 11th, 2009 08:44 pm (UTC)
For john and roxy:

Josh Friedman wasn't lying in the first season future flash. If this was his plan for the series all along, then the 18 year old John Connor that Derek saw at the end of his future flash WAS FUTURE!JOHN. Literally.

-Soran (nice to see you off NewFilmDimension John ;) )

P.S. - if this was Josh plan all along, that finale was pure unmitigated awesome, roxy ;). Every plot about derek And Jessie can now be resolved before it happens since John knows about it.
johnnypate
Apr. 12th, 2009 06:30 pm (UTC)
(I do get around and about - on the intarw3bz at least)

Yes, the more I think about it the more genius it is. Cameron was always John Henry! Who knew! But it explains why she kept saying she was "special" and why she has her own agenda.

Derek knew Allison before Cameron, explains his issues with Cameron.

I agree, yes, it was "our" John that was future!John all along that we saw in Derek's flashforward.

Nothing Kyle said in the first "Terminator" film is contradicted, from my scanning of the script (on-line).

Now "our" future!John must retrieve the picture of Sarah he gives to Kyle. Going to have to re-watch to see if I can find Cameron stashing it somewhere he'll find it (though Cameron/JH can tell him anyway, maybe).

Only Sarah's timeline has to be self-consistent (it's "The Sarah Connor Chronicles"). Jesse/Riley weren't necessarily in future!John's timeline when he sent Derek back (it was "Derek's Jesse" in that timeline). I need to think that thru some more - future!John would need some reason to not warn Derek about Jesse/Riley. And/or the Jesse/Riley thing has a deeper significance in some other way. (See below, in the the unlikely event of an S3, Stephanie has got to be back I reckon.)

Talking of thinking the time travel thru, I'm trying to figure this: if it was actually Cameron who jumped back with the team to make the time machine they used in the bank to jump Sarah over her death, will that tie the future!John scene we saw in s02e22 with s01? (By "tie" I mean casually in a way that events cannot change from Sarah's POV.) Does it even matter?

It must be there are (at least) two liquid-metal Terminator factions:

  • the T2 faction who jumped back and tried to kill John in T2 and told Jesse "the answer is no" on the Carter;

  • the Weaverbot faction.

We know there's the Skynet vs Cameron/JH uber-AI factions in play and, it turns out, part of the secret of John's success is that the has Cameron/JH fighting with him against Skynet. Which really does make sense because Skynet would be such an overwhelmingly superior opponent how would one man really make a difference? Other than being the human face of Cameron/JH. And so that's what Cameron meant when she said: "Telling me is the same as telling John Connor." Really, it's Cameron/JH battling Skynet.

If it turns out Jesse survives and makes it to the future she could be the one to reconcile the anti-John anti-Cameron/JH humans with the John/Cameron/JH trinity. Which would mean it would make sense that future!John let the Jesse/Riley story play out in his past - because it would lead to a vastly greater strategic gain in the future.

You could actually end up with two versions of Jesse in the one timeline by that logic. Indeed, we have seen multiple copies of the same person in one timeline (Fischer). We actually need to know how the time bubble machine works. Something I'm pondering on is this: how can it see back into the past to send someone there when the act of sending someone back changes the past?

Anyhoo, in spite of what Roxy I thinks, I think "Born to Run" (and, of course, it's Sarah who was born to run, I think she has cancer and is running to stop JD before she dies - a time jump was pointless for her) was a totally awesome... especially because the chances of an S3 are, to put it kindly, slim.

I'm going to be re-watching the T1/T2/TSCC1&2 over and over, there's so much goodness to explore.
bobmacpharson
Apr. 12th, 2009 06:33 pm (UTC)
Make sure to watch as much of it on fox.com as you can, so you actually contribute to ratings.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 13th, 2009 03:32 am (UTC)
Funny you should mention that because I've been in deep time travel discussions with my husband this evening, tossing about the possibilities and consequences of John's time jump. And that very topic came up.

I had to wonder if the appearance of future!John in Derek's flashback in D&D wasn't just the result of Derek blending 2007!John with 2027!John in his mind. Could it have been the 17-year-old John who we just saw jump from 2009 to 2027 (or whenever he jumped to)?

For a second I thought, yes. But Derek told John in "What He Beheld" that he'd celebrated John's 30th birthday with him. So that means Derek knew an adult future!John, not a teenage future!John.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 13th, 2009 05:51 am (UTC)
Since there is no future!John in this timeline, Kyle Reese couldn't have been sent back, so him being there really doesn't indicate that we're at a point before he would have been sent back.

Edited at 2009-04-13 05:51 am (UTC)
bobmacpharson
Apr. 11th, 2009 02:45 pm (UTC)
[quote]And for all the Jameron fans, John gets to meet Allison Young. His true love.[/quote]

Honestly, I don't think so. I think a major plot point may be his realization that Allison Young is NOT Cameron, and the things that interested him in Cameron are not there any more.
johnnypate
Apr. 11th, 2009 06:44 pm (UTC)
They could go that way with it... to pander to the hentai robot sex sickos... or they could go with John realising the difference between robots and humans. My way, Cameron would be sent away by a grieving John because the metal was a painful reminder, a hideous portrait in flesh, of the lovely and vital Allison Young.
bobmacpharson
Apr. 11th, 2009 07:03 pm (UTC)
This isn't about sicko hentai robot sex, it's about exploring what exactly a relationship (romantic or otherwise) between a robot and human would be like. As I said before, I think we already got a "sex" scene between the two. Cameron opening herself up to him like that is more intimate than traditional human sex would be.

I'm sure the relationship between Allison and John would be interesting in its own right, but apart from her having the body of the robot he already cares about, it wouldn't be anything we couldn't explore in any other show. The relationship between humans and machines is pretty much the entire point of the show.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 13th, 2009 05:48 am (UTC)
We have no way of knowing if Allison was ever or will be his true love, but she certainly isn't right now. He doesn't even know her.

Sarah stepped out of the time bubble because jumping to the future meant giving up — quitting the fight. She's determined to stop judgement day and there's no way to do that from a point in time where it's already happened. I'm glad she didn't go. I'm only sorry that meant she got stuck with that fucking idiot Ellison.

Even if John joins the resistance and eventually gets to be a bubble tech, I don't think he can send anyone back without closing off his own timeline and trapping himself there. I think I might have mentioned that in another comment, though. I don't know - I've been skipping around all over the place :P
garyinla
Apr. 11th, 2009 11:51 pm (UTC)
C'mon Roxy, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. Even though we can tell from the title here, and it's not hard to see why, really.

Obviously people are much more inspired to write about something they like, as opposed to what they don't. Still, some of us are fans of your writings here too. You've enhanced my enjoyment of the show this season. Quite a lot actually! And I'm thankful for it.

roxybisquaint
Apr. 12th, 2009 12:04 am (UTC)
Aw, thanks Gary. In fact, I'm attempting to write a real post about the finale right now. I was torn up so badly over it last night that I didn't want to do anything more than a quickie post. Now that I've given it time to breath, I think I'm ready to dive into this one fully.
garyinla
Apr. 12th, 2009 12:45 am (UTC)
That's what I figured, it would take a little time to calm down. I like to see from various POV's.

I enjoyed it and they produced it beautifully as usual, I just don't know where it leaves Sarah's story, and wonder where viewers think it can go from here.

Along with other aspects of the series, I loved this Sarah Connor too. Such a great character.
motoki
Apr. 12th, 2009 01:43 am (UTC)
Sarah
Well I think that she would do what she promised John she would do, keep trying to track down and stop Skynet. In this case she'd have to find Kaliba and she's got a big lead with Danny Dyson's disappearance.

I think the first thing she'd do is pay Tarissa Dyson, who still will not be happy to see her, another visit.

But the thing is we also know she failed. Until and unless someone else comes back from the future that John and Catherine Weaver jumped to, then Sarah's doomed to fail.

Even if someone comes back to 2009 John Henry's brother (proto-Skynet) has already reached sentience and has infected 75% of the world's networked computer systems with his worm. I think anyone would be hard pressed to stop that.

Ellison and Savannah are other dangling threads in the present. And then there's the detective who probably was being honest about believing Sarah.

They could do a parallel present day story alongside the future one, but somebody would have to jump back from the future at some point if that present day story was to have any chance at all of averting Judgement Day.

Then again if they want to more closely parallel the movie then I guess they probably want post Judgement Day material.
roxybisquaint
Apr. 13th, 2009 05:23 am (UTC)
Re: Sarah
But the thing is we also know she failed.

Yes. She and John both failed and that's one of my biggest problems with this being a potential series finale. It's pretty harsh even for a season finale, but a series finale?! They knew full well how shaky the chance of renewal were before this even got written. I think that's downright cruel. If we don't get renewed, my devstation may continue for a really long time :(

You know, I'm thinking Terissa might actually be happy to see Sarah for once, since Sarah may be the only person who can actually help find her son. It'll be an interesting meetin, that's for sure.
bobmacpharson
Apr. 12th, 2009 12:15 am (UTC)
One thing that someone pointed out to me, which may not be obvious:

At first glance, this is a ridiculous cliff hanger, a terrible way to end the series if we don't get a season 3. At second and third glance I'd still say that is largely true, but consider the challenge facing the writers: They need to craft an episode that can simultaneously end the series yet preserve the possibility of its future.

This show is the Sarah Connor Chronicles. I think that was a bad choice for the name - it's clunky and narrows the focus of what is really an ensemble story. But it's the name they chose. As such, it is ultimately about Sarah Connor's journey as she prepares for Judgment day. The show doesn't necessarily end when they win - it ends when Sarah has reached the end of her journey.

If we get a Season 3, I'm sure we'll see the continuation of Sarah's story in the present, but the end of the episode doesn't focus on that. Instead it focuses on the future, where Sarah is gone and John must finally rise to the role he's been trained for all his life.

Frustrating? Yeah, but appropriate.

I also am very tickled by the fact that John has found himself in a strange world, populated by people who look like his old friends yet are not them, unable to get home until he can find the powerful wizard who doesn't show his/its face. (Oh, and he has a dog now)
roxybisquaint
Apr. 13th, 2009 05:35 am (UTC)
I like the name, but I may be the only one. I wish they'd never added Terminator to it, though. I think that made too many people tune in expecting nonstop action instead of character driven drama with action.

I was rather frustrated with that ending and it felt completely inappropriate to me to leave the title character in the dust for the cool ending in Oz. And what makes it all worse is that Sarah is left with Ellison of all people... Ellison. I can't think of a worse ending for Sarah than that. If we don't get a third season to fix that, I may have to break out the torches and pitchforks and go looking for the producers :P
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roxybisquaint
Roxy Bisquaint

Roxy Bisquaint...

Is self-indulgent. Over thinks everything. Tweets too much. Looks really good in these jeans. Wants to eat butterscotch. Makes herself laugh. Obsesses about aging. Does some crunches. Lives with two ghosts. Procrastinates daily. Measures once, cuts twice. Hates Foo Fighters. Drinks lots of coffee (keep it coming). Puts spiders outside. Brings balance to the force. Draws a perfect curve. Enjoys dark chocolate. Bangs on the drums. Always gets in the slow line. Orders from a menu. Hopes to be reincarnated. Speaks fluent Sarah Connor. Cooks tasty crack theory. Loves a good storm. Dances like a dork. Picks some locks. Tips well. Refuses to share the popcorn. Dreams about the future. Ignores the clock. Sings off key. Has a superpower. Shoots the paper bad guys. Needs some eyeliner. Goes to bed at dawn. Can't resist good smut. Quotes movie lines. Eats whipped yogurt. Lets the story tell itself. Maintains a rich fantasy life. Knows all the mysteries of the gods and of the universe.

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