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Isotope? Is this nuclear?

In Born to Run, Cameron tells John that Sarah has lost 11% of her body mass in the last six weeks. By my fuzzy math, that would mean she'd lost about 12lbs. Twelve pounds. On someone her size, it would be impossible for Sarah not to notice that. Yet no more than a few days earlier, in To the Lighthouse, the doctor asked if she'd had "any unexplained weight loss, fever or night sweats". The only thing Sarah noted was feeling nauseated. She made no mention of weight loss at all.

The cancer story has been suspicious since the beginning since all we've got to go on is Cameron's word. She lies when she deems it necessary and what little information she provided in Gnothi Seauton was vague: "You died, December 4, 2005" and "cancer." That's it. That's the extent of the data on the death of Sarah Connor. It might've been helpful if Sarah had actually asked her more, but she didn't and Cameron didn't offer it.

Sarah did, however, ask Cameron about her diagnostic skills — whether she could analyze blood or scan someone. Though Cameron later analyzes John's blood drops on the sidewalk in Samson & Delilah and assesses library boy Eric's cancer in Self Made Man, she tells Sarah no. Actually, she sidesteps the blood analysis question and rephrases the scan question so it's specifically about CAT scans. Then she says no. So I guess she wasn't so much lying as withholding truth.

The only time I felt like we could believe Cameron about Sarah's cancer was in Automatic for the People. It was just a few days after the glitch and her decision-making was clearly impaired. She seemed less calculated, more honest, and it made me believe that Cameron believed Sarah Connor died of cancer in 2005. And when she told Sarah she didn't know if she was still going to get sick or if her exposure at the power plant would be the cause, I believed that too.

That brings me to the title of this post and that little vial Cameron pulls out of the safety deposit box in the bank vault in the pilot.

"What is it?"

"Hope."

I think Sarah Connor did die of cancer in 2005 and I think that cancer was just starting to develop in 1999. Sarah wouldn't know about it for a while yet, maybe even years. But Cameron knew. Based on surviving medical records and some research into cancer, she deduced that 1999 was the best point in time to go after Sarah's cancer and... kill it before it was born. 1999 was the best point in time to hand her that weapon, made by their best engineer, and make sure she exposed herself to a good, strong isotope blast that could target the cancer cells.

Whether or not firing that gun really cured Sarah is unknown. Cameron couldn't be sure if the plan would work and she was keeping tabs on her health all along in case it didn't. But that weight loss she noted in Adam Raised a Cain and Born to Run? That was a lie.

ETA: Updated this because it wasn't "in the last 3 months" that Sarah supposedly lost 11% of her mass, it was in the last six weeks (which makes it even more unbelievable). Also, it's in Born to Run where Cameron gives the percentage. In Adam Raised a Cain, she only says "she's lost weight".



Comments

( 68 comments — Add a comment )
(Anonymous)
Oct. 10th, 2010 11:31 pm (UTC)
distracted
I could see Sarah not noticing her weight loss. Ever since Mexico she had been distracted with a lot of stuff.

0)cromartie
1) Three dots.
2) Kaliba.
3) She was shot.
4) She was kidnapped.
5) She had to tell with the Jesse and Riley stuff.
6) She went to The Lighthouse and then was attacked at the doctors.
7) Savannah and everything that happened in the episode.
8) everything that happened in born to run.

There was so much going on in her life that I could see her not noticing. John was to busy trying to have a *normal* life that he wouldn't have noticed, but it's Cameron's job to notice stuff like that.

The way I see is that if Sarah didn't have cancer then all those elements are just pointless and serve no real purpose. And from what I can see, everything the writers told us had a purpose.

I do believe she had cancer and was probably going to die. At some point she has to die so that John can come into his own and take charge without his mother telling him what to do or trying to be in charge. We all know that Sarah likes to be in charge. It might have been called the Sarah Connor Chronicles, but its' Chronicles... that means the telling of someone's life.

Plus, usually when Cameron lies they make it pretty obvious to the viewer. There is no reason for her to lie to John about his mother losing weight. It really doesn't serve any purpose except to have john know about what's happening to his mother. I could believe it was a lie if it came after Cameron finding out about "will you join us" that might have then lead to her trying to get John to stay with his mother. But I think she was telling the truth about the weight loss.
fig_aruna
Oct. 11th, 2010 12:54 am (UTC)
Re: distracted
12lbs is a really *amazing* amount to lose for someone who normally weighs 120; I know from personal experience. I agree that a lot definitely happened in S2, but I would think that Sarah, who is the leeriest about the cancer possibility, would be thoughtfully honest with a doctor who she made an appointment with *specifically* to inquire about cancer.
Re: distracted - roxybisquaint - Oct. 11th, 2010 01:14 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: distracted - fig_aruna - Oct. 11th, 2010 01:38 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: distracted - roxybisquaint - Oct. 11th, 2010 01:43 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: distracted - fig_aruna - Oct. 11th, 2010 01:57 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: distracted - roxybisquaint - Oct. 11th, 2010 06:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
roxybisquaint
Oct. 11th, 2010 01:11 am (UTC)
Re: distracted
Since the show lapsed quite a bit in time during season 2, we can't be sure which episodes would have been included in the three months Sarah was supposedly losing weight. I assume it's from about Earthlings/Good Wound to the end of the season.

Having been shot and kidnapped she certainly could've lost weight from the stress of all that. But twelve points on a thin female is not something that could possibly go unnoticed by her. Her pants wouldn't have fit anymore! So when the doctor asked if she'd had any weight loss, she would have mentioned it.

Re: distracted - kaotic619 - Oct. 11th, 2010 01:31 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: distracted - kaotic619 - Oct. 11th, 2010 01:32 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: distracted - roxybisquaint - Oct. 11th, 2010 01:40 am (UTC) - Expand
roxybisquaint
Oct. 11th, 2010 02:06 am (UTC)
Re: distracted
At some point she has to die so that John can come into his own and take charge without his mother telling him what to do or trying to be in charge. We all know that Sarah likes to be in charge.

I'm don't get why John Connor fans think he'll be incapable of growing into adulthood unless his mother dies. The rest of us seem to grow up just fine! Even with parents still breathing. Sometimes even with parents who are over-protective. We start careers and start families and even make decisions.

I totally discount any notion that Sarah being alive means John is stuck in perpetual teenagerhood. He'll grow up just like everyone else, whether she's there or not.
(Deleted comment)
Re: distracted - roxybisquaint - Oct. 11th, 2010 06:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
fig_aruna
Oct. 11th, 2010 12:43 am (UTC)
I like this. A lot. ♥♥♥♥

But I want to know why Cameron lied! The sudden red eye in BTR seemed like a physical indication that she was suddenly following a specific set of actions that were required once Mr. Ellison passed along Weaver's message. But why the lie about Sarah having cancer? Thinking of it as a way to push John to jump to the future makes me really angry-- with John. Any other ideas..?!
roxybisquaint
Oct. 11th, 2010 01:38 am (UTC)
In this theory, Cameron wouldn't even need to tell Sarah she'd ever died of cancer. She could've just let her get exposed to the isotope then kept tabs on her health without mentioning it. So there had to be a reason to tell her about it and there also had to be a reason for not telling her she could analyze blood and detect cancer.

I think that reason is the same reason she later tells John about the weight loss: manipulation.

Telling Sarah about the cancer (and not telling her she'd be able to detect it if it showed up) served two purposes: It gave Sarah a sense of urgency about stopping Skynet and it gave Cameron the chance to get closer to John. Sarah's focus was divided at times as she struggled with her own mortality. That allowed Cameron more influence over John. Maybe she also hoped Sarah would begin to see Cameron as her successor in protecting John.

I can't figure out why Cameron would lie to John about Sarah losing weight because I still haven't settled on her end game. What I generally lean towards is the idea that Cameron wanted John to jump ahead so he'd be safe (same reason I try to apply to Sarah not trying to stop John from jumping). But it's a messy theory because Cameron was teaching John about repairing metal and reading chips. Why do that if her motives where essentially to change his fate? One of these days I'll figure her out!

Edited at 2010-10-11 01:44 am (UTC)
(no subject) - kaotic619 - Oct. 11th, 2010 02:00 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - fig_aruna - Oct. 11th, 2010 02:16 am (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Oct. 11th, 2010 02:23 am (UTC)
If it's about manipulation then it's a crappy way of manipulating someone. There is nothing for her to gain from lying to John and Sarah about the cancer. Does it give her more power over John? No. If they never went to the future John would have continued to worry about his mother and then they would've probably had her checked out. Cameron manipulated John sometimes (not as much as Riley and Jesse did), but not to just mess with his head because she can.
roxybisquaint
Oct. 11th, 2010 03:01 am (UTC)
It doesn't make sense for Cameron to have lied about being able to analyze blood and detect cancer either. My theory is born of a desire to reconcile all the things about the cancer that just don't add up. Cameron wasn't straight-forward about much of anything, so its her motives and her agenda that everything seems to hinge on.
adam_0oo
Oct. 11th, 2010 03:12 am (UTC)
Image Source,Photobucket Uploader Firefox Extension
intrepid01
Oct. 11th, 2010 03:54 am (UTC)
Sarah's weight prior to Chromartie and Cameron showing up might have been more than what was on record.
When Sarah was in the nut house she was constantly working out and was a lean mean fighting machine, but she might have let her training regimen slide since they thought JD had been adverted and put on some weight.
Once they jumped into the future she went back into high gear and commenced her training again, thus loosing that weight.
That and stress could account for the figure Cameron was quoting without it being as bad as you think.

Cameron lies, always for a reason, but since this didn't lead anywhere I don't think she was lying, the “hope” for Sarah was jumping into the future, cancer treatment is much more advanced now, what would have certainly killed you a couple of years ago, can sometimes be cured now.
roxybisquaint
Oct. 11th, 2010 04:10 am (UTC)
Ellison's record in the pilot was being updated after talking to Charley, so the weight would've been fairly accurate. She might've gained some muscle mass over the next few months because she needed to be good shape. But she couldn't have gained enough that losing 11% of her body mass in a 3-month span of time would go unnoticed.

The visit to the doctor where Sarah made no mention of weight loss (even when asked) was no more than a few days prior to Cameron announcing this dramatic weight loss to John. cameron was either mistaken, lying or it was a screw up in the writing. I'll be disappointed if they screwed that up because it's a hell of a lot more fun to speculate than to shrug it off as a gaff ;)


Cameron lies, always for a reason, but since this didn't lead anywhere I don't think she was lying, the “hope” for Sarah was jumping into the future, cancer treatment is much more advanced now, what would have certainly killed you a couple of years ago, can sometimes be cured now.

We don't yet know if it lead anywhere, though. The show got canceled before we found out if Sarah actually had cancer!

Going with your belief that Cameron didn't lie about the weight loss, how do you explain her withholding her medical skills (blood analysis and cancer detection) from Sarah?
(no subject) - (Anonymous) - Oct. 11th, 2010 05:39 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - fig_aruna - Oct. 11th, 2010 06:39 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - fig_aruna - Oct. 11th, 2010 06:45 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - roxybisquaint - Oct. 11th, 2010 08:38 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - roxybisquaint - Oct. 11th, 2010 08:42 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - fig_aruna - Oct. 11th, 2010 11:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - roxybisquaint - Oct. 12th, 2010 10:40 am (UTC) - Expand
Cameron's analysis - tackdriver56 - Oct. 11th, 2010 12:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Cameron's analysis - roxybisquaint - Oct. 12th, 2010 09:18 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Cameron's analysis - tackdriver56 - Oct. 12th, 2010 01:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Anonymous)
Oct. 11th, 2010 05:45 am (UTC)
Based on the Chronicles of Sarah Connor
Hello, Roxy, you're right,
“1999 was the best point in time to kill Sarah's cancer”
almost same thing was written here in Japanese,
http://tscc.jugem.jp/?eid=178

that's why this show is called Sarah Connor Chronicles,
each year was set and based on the Sarah's cancer,
not based on John's Chronicles, in fact Cameron said,
“You're ahead of schedule.What you need to learn.”(by Cameron)
Future John and Cameron tried to save Sarah Connor's Life.
...
By the way...
Sarah Connor's House Location;
http://tscc.jugem.jp/?eid=171
Catherine Weaver's House Location;
http://tscc.jugem.jp/?eid=179
The engineer's Security Trust of Los Angeles in Albuquerque;
http://tscc.jugem.jp/?eid=176
Enjoy!

TAKASHI from JAPAN
roxybisquaint
Oct. 11th, 2010 06:35 am (UTC)
Re: Based on the Chronicles of Sarah Connor
Hi Takashi

Yay! I'm so glad there are other people who also have this theory about 1999!

I studied photos of the Stocker Baldwin Hills Oilfield house when I was making a diagram of the house, but I'd never seen those pictures of some Weaver's house and some of those other locations before. That was cool! Thank you for the links :)



phantomwriter05
Oct. 11th, 2010 06:10 am (UTC)
*pulls whiskers in thought*

you know this whole theory has brought me to this one point.

she feels nausious and thus throws up alot I bet therfore she loses weight.

I don't think you realized what you just proved here Rox ...


Sarah's Pregnant!!

(and not with the FAIL!Boat Dixon's spawn either.)

So it really comes down to Derek and Sarah sleeping together after she killed winston when she was looking for comfort.

that or ... it's John's (It's a Joke)

So congradulations you somehow in your geeky somewhat obsessive borderline irritating analitcal mind you have proven that Sarah Connor's pregnant.
roxybisquaint
Oct. 11th, 2010 07:01 am (UTC)
L
O
L

No. Not pregnant. Unless Winston did more than check out Sarah's scars while she was drugged up, there's no one who she could've gotten pregnant from. As much as I would've loved a Sarah/Derek thing, it didn't happen and couldn't have happened because of Jesse.
(Deleted comment)
roxybisquaint
Oct. 11th, 2010 07:23 am (UTC)
Hey, whatever's on screen is in play unless it's specifically stated as being a gaff byt he writers. But I share your s2 bitterness. I loved s1 so much and s2 didn't live up to those standards.
(no subject) - cj2017 - Oct. 11th, 2010 03:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - roxybisquaint - Oct. 11th, 2010 06:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - fig_aruna - Oct. 11th, 2010 11:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - roxybisquaint - Oct. 12th, 2010 10:39 am (UTC) - Expand
Cancer metaphor - tackdriver56 - Oct. 12th, 2010 12:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Cancer metaphor - roxybisquaint - Oct. 13th, 2010 07:39 am (UTC) - Expand
tackdriver56
Oct. 11th, 2010 12:59 pm (UTC)
Radioisotope therapy
Awesome post, interesting articles.

One of the points made, was that the isotopes used for cancer therapy have intentionally short half-lives. That argues against the 40-year-old "Hope" vial containing a treatment isotope. That, and filling the bank vault (and Sarah, and JOHN!) with a dose of radiation, flies in the face of carefully targeting a tumor.

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." - Freud.

The plasma rifle really was just to defend their position long enough to assemble and use the TDE. Jumping ahead would get them out of the time-line where they were being hunted, and even if it didn't prevent Sarah's cancer, it could bring her into a time where the detection and cure rates are in her favor.

Cameron lying about Sarah losing weight seems believable, except that John would have noticed. Teenage boys are acutely aware of ALL nearby females: classmates, teachers, neighbors, and yes, Moms. John would know whether she was looking thinner and hotter, (or sicker?) than usual. Any males disagree?

If Cameron *did* lie about Sarah losing weight, implying she had cancer, the motivation could be to convince John that Sarah needed him. That would dovetail nicely with the theory that Cameron was trying to discourage John from following her, warning him that she would always be dangerous to him, and saying her goodbye with some cyborg intimacy (her cold heart being another reminder that she's not really compatible, deep down).

John (thinks he) followed Cameron (why?). Sarah Connor let him go (why?).
roxybisquaint
Oct. 12th, 2010 09:58 am (UTC)
Re: Radioisotope therapy
I'm surprised it took this long for someone to shoot down the isotope theory. I thought for sure I'd get hammered on that right away :P

Considering it's a science fiction story that involves time travel, I'm comfortable in believing there could be advancements in the use of isotopes to treat cancer. Judgement day would've halted that, but maybe that engineer was a medical engineer and developed this particular treatment himself.



If Cameron *did* lie about Sarah losing weight, implying she had cancer, the motivation could be to convince John that Sarah needed him. That would dovetail nicely with the theory that Cameron was trying to discourage John from following her, warning him that she would always be dangerous to him, and saying her goodbye with some cyborg intimacy (her cold heart being another reminder that she's not really compatible, deep down).

That would make the most sense, but I have a really hard time not seeing the motel scene as a seduction. On the surface, it was Cameron proving to John that she wasn't leaking radiation and a big reminder that she's not human. But the way she went about it was much more intimate than it needed to be. It made me think of Cameron's "that was effective - the way he touched her lips" line from Vick'c Chip.

Oh wait, I think I see what you're saying. That's exactly what it was. Cameron was being effective for John's sake — creating intimacy for him since she knew she was going to be leaving him. Although if she really didn't want him to follow, letting him continue to wonder if she was leaking radiation would've been more effective. I guess that's where robots fail in understanding human emotion.

The scene where she tells John about Sarah's weight loss has always been equally ambiguous to me because cancer would tend to push john towards Sarah, while learning she'd intended to ditch him would probably push him away from Sarah. But I think I finally understand that scene to be Cameron setting up the fact that she's going to ditch John and leave him with Sarah.

I tell ya, I think I'm really getting some Cameron clarity with all this discussion.


John (thinks he) followed Cameron (why?). Sarah Connor let him go (why?).

So much for clarity :P

John following isn't mysterious to me. He wanted her back. But Sarah not trying to stop him will forever drive me insane because it's so out of character for her. Whether she thinks she has cancer or not, she would never let him jump to the future with liquid metal. There's no fixing that.

I can force a motivation into it that sort of works, but I don't actually see it in the scene: she lets him go, knowing that if she stops j-day, he lands in a normal future gets to live his life. She changes his fate. That's works fine if I can believe she was thinking it at the time (I don't), but letting him go with Weaver is a problem I don't think I'll ever be able to get around.

Re: Radioisotope therapy - tackdriver56 - Oct. 12th, 2010 11:57 am (UTC) - Expand
the_narration
Oct. 11th, 2010 04:18 pm (UTC)
Wait, are we really supposed to believe that Sarah Connor only weighs 110 lbs? That's way underweight for a woman 5' 5.5" tall (LH's actual height), and muscle is dense so if anything she should be heavier than normal, not have the mass of an anorexic supermodel.

As for the idea that she got down to 98 lbs without anyone except Cameron noticing... no way. You're right. Either Cameron was lying or the writers got sloppy. I wish I could have faith that it wasn't the latter.

Unfortunately, I have to shoot down your theory about the isotope gun curing Sarah's cancer. The thing that makes the isotopes used for cancer treatment in your link safer is that they're delivered straight to the tumor through injection or antibodies--they're more specifically targeted than with traditional chemotherapy. A burst of radiation from the gun would have been indiscriminate and more likely to give her cancer than take it away.

Also, wasn't it Sarah who decided to go after Skynet rather than just flee across the border, prompting the trip to the bank? Although I suspect that Cameron was supposed to eventually convince them to do that anyway, since Derek's support team had been sent to meet them in 2007 L.A.
roxybisquaint
Oct. 12th, 2010 10:32 am (UTC)
Yep. 5'5" and 110lbs. That's what Ellison put into her file in after talking to Charley.

I know the writers made plenty of errors along the way, but I don't think this was one of them. In one episode she hadn't noticed any weight loss and in the very next episode, Cameron's saying she's lost a significant amount of weight. It had to be intentional. And that can only mean Cameron was lying to John about it.


Unfortunately, I have to shoot down your theory about the isotope gun curing Sarah's cancer.

You and tackdriver are such buzzkills! :P

I know it's a stretch, but maybe it's possible within the realm of a sci-fi story with time travel. Maybe that engineer was both a nuclear physicist and a brilliant doctor. Maybe prior to j-day, he'd been doing research into simpler methods for using isotopes to treat pre-stage-1 cancer. And maybe that lightning beam has a bit of an overspray that gets some isotopes on you the way firing a regular gun gets gunpowder on you. It penetrates through the skill and finds some bad cells to kill :D

Or... not.


Also, wasn't it Sarah who decided to go after Skynet rather than just flee across the border, prompting the trip to the bank? Although I suspect that Cameron was supposed to eventually convince them to do that anyway, since Derek's support team had been sent to meet them in 2007 L.A.

I agree with that.When Sarah first says they're going to fight Skynet, Cameron's reaction shot makes me think she's both surprised and pleased. And I definitely think she would've tried to persuade her if Sarah hadn't made that decision.

the_narration
Oct. 12th, 2010 01:21 pm (UTC)
Yep. 5'5" and 110lbs. That's what Ellison put into her file in after talking to Charley.

*sigh* Apparently that was written up by the same people the comic companies get to do height/weight stats for superheroines that always give statuesque women (with huge... tracts of land) absurdly low body mass. :-P

I dunno, I just can't buy that she'd weight 110. Sarah is not that waifish and canonically does pull-ups to have actual muscles for hitting things.

If Sarah weighted 140 or 150, I might more easily buy that she dropped to 125 or 134 (11% loss) without somebody noticing she'd lost a lot of muscle mass (if she wore thick or loose clothing a lot), but at 98 lbs she would have looked at skeletal (and not much better at 110, honestly).


And that can only mean Cameron was lying to John about it.

Yeah. Not to mention that "they fucked up" as an explanation takes all the fun out of it. :-)

The "Cameron didn't want John to follow her" theory that some of the people above floated makes a lot of sense to me. I mean, we've discussed before how monumentally disadvantageous it was to go to the future. It doesn't suit Cameron's purposes (as far as we know) for John to do so.


And maybe that lightning beam has a bit of an overspray that gets some isotopes on you the way firing a regular gun gets gunpowder on you.

That's entirely plausible, but not really the problem with the theory. The radiation (or isotopes that emit radiation) wouldn't be carefully targeted at Sarah's cancerous cells, so it wouldn't kill her cancer while leaving her healthy cells intact. That'd be a bit like saying that you could do surgery on someone by exploding a bomb packed with scalpels. :-)

Now, if a needle in the grip injected her with some nanites or something that would attack her cancer, that's a different story.
(no subject) - roxybisquaint - Oct. 14th, 2010 02:20 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - the_narration - Oct. 15th, 2010 04:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
tackdriver56
Oct. 12th, 2010 12:11 pm (UTC)
Treatment Isotopes have no shelf-life.
Contain specifically transmuted elements (isotopes) that radioactively decay extremely rapidly. They do their job, deliver the dose of radiation to the tumor, and revert to a "harmless", non-radioactive element or isotope. This decay happens whether they are injected or not: the stuff has zip for shelf-life.
If you miss your appointment, you have to wait a day while they Fed-Ex a fresh batch from the reactor.

It's that fast.
tackdriver56
Oct. 13th, 2010 12:38 pm (UTC)
John Henry as cancer
I think it's safe to assume that Kaliba/Skynet was hunting Savanah Weaver, that the John Henry who fled 2009 was an enemy of Skynet.

I think it's uncertain whether Weaver took John Connor to the same time, and whether Cameron was left behind at Zeira, whether she's a zip file, or whether she's actively sharing processor execution bandwidth on her own chip.

I assume that John Henry holds the knowledge of how to build TDE and liquid metal, both technologies first used against humans by Skynet. Logically, this implies that John Henry fails to help the humans, at least in the timelines we've seen as canon.

"You change a wire, you change John Henry". While the fan wire bit was stupid in the show, porting John Henry to run on Cameron's processor could have many unintended consequences. Ditto collaboration and 'cross pollenation', and some entity (John Henry? Cameron?) smuggled a frozen LMT to that oil platform.

Somehow, despite Skynet acquiring technology from John Henry, a 'third faction' AI is created, willing to consider allying with the humans to defeat Skynet.

It's easy to see Cameron as the guardian Golem. It's harder to identify the second Golem, although if John Connor realizes that John Henry/Cameron is actually carrying the TDE and LMT technology to Skynet, he faces a heart rending moral dilemma of 'killing' John Henry (and Cameron!?), to stop Skynet from sending back the first Terminator, the seed of Judgement Day.

(Weaver also carries these secrets, but could be taken out by either Skynet, or Connor. No tears here. Sorry Shirley.)

I could see that in a two hour movie.
roxybisquaint
Oct. 14th, 2010 02:54 am (UTC)
Re: John Henry as cancer
I think it's safe to assume that Kaliba/Skynet was hunting Savanah Weaver, that the John Henry who fled 2009 was an enemy of Skynet.

Agreed.


--


I think it's uncertain whether Weaver took John Connor to the same time,

Uncertain, yes, but I don't think we have any reason to doubt it. Weaver wanted to get John Henry back ("Coming James?... To get our boy back."). So whether or not John Henry actually jumped, I do believe Weaver and John went to the same date that she believed John Henry had gone to.


--


and whether Cameron was left behind at Zeira, whether she's a zip file, or whether she's actively sharing processor execution bandwidth on her own chip.

I've leaned towards different scenarios over the last several months, but I think I'm settled now on Cameron being on The Turk (though I still think it's possible she and John Henry are both on The Turk *and* the chip).


--


I assume that John Henry holds the knowledge of how to build TDE and liquid metal, both technologies first used against humans by Skynet. Logically, this implies that John Henry fails to help the humans, at least in the timelines we've seen as canon.

Hmm. I can't think of why John Henry would know those things. They're future technologies that could only have been taught to him by Weaver. She can make a TDE, obviously, but I think if she actually knew how to make liquid metal, she wouldn't have had any reason to make John Henry.


--


It's easy to see Cameron as the guardian Golem. It's harder to identify the second Golem, although if John Connor realizes that John Henry/Cameron is actually carrying the TDE and LMT technology to Skynet, he faces a heart rending moral dilemma of 'killing' John Henry (and Cameron!?), to stop Skynet from sending back the first Terminator, the seed of Judgement Day.

It's a bit tricky to even say who John Henry's creator is. Body by Skynet. Initial program by Andy Goode (though some code is from Cyberdyne & Miles Dyson). Developmental growth by Weaver, Merch, Ellison & Savannah. But I guess we'd ultimately have to point to Skynet as his creator because in addition to creating the body, the coding grew from Dyson/Cyberdyne's work which was based on the parts left behind by the T800 Sarah flattened in the factory in T1.

I don't think Skynet would target John Henry because of any specific knowledge he had. How would Skynet even know? I think John Henry is most likely going to meet his doom in a showdown with his brother (and I view Kaliba AI as young Skynet). I like to think Cam's on the Turk, so she's safe ad Sarah will be able to interact with her. Sarah will also hunt down Kaliba and end up fighting on the same side as John Henry against Kaliba.

They'll triumph, but John Henry will be mostly destroyed. He and Sarah share some sort of T2 Sarah & Arnie handshake kind of moment, then his power supply cuts off. She removes Cam's chip from his head, then destroys all endo parts and Kaliba tech. She takes the chip back to Cameron and all is well. Then John returns.



Edited at 2010-10-14 02:55 am (UTC)
Re: John Henry as cancer - tackdriver56 - Oct. 15th, 2010 03:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
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roxy burglar
roxybisquaint
Roxy Bisquaint

Roxy Bisquaint...

Is self-indulgent. Over thinks everything. Tweets too much. Looks really good in these jeans. Wants to eat butterscotch. Makes herself laugh. Obsesses about aging. Does some crunches. Lives with two ghosts. Procrastinates daily. Measures once, cuts twice. Hates Foo Fighters. Drinks lots of coffee (keep it coming). Puts spiders outside. Brings balance to the force. Draws a perfect curve. Enjoys dark chocolate. Bangs on the drums. Always gets in the slow line. Orders from a menu. Hopes to be reincarnated. Speaks fluent Sarah Connor. Cooks tasty crack theory. Loves a good storm. Dances like a dork. Picks some locks. Tips well. Refuses to share the popcorn. Dreams about the future. Ignores the clock. Sings off key. Has a superpower. Shoots the paper bad guys. Needs some eyeliner. Goes to bed at dawn. Can't resist good smut. Quotes movie lines. Eats whipped yogurt. Lets the story tell itself. Maintains a rich fantasy life. Knows all the mysteries of the gods and of the universe.

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