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John Henry, where's your trousers?

You guys already know that I don't think John Henry time-jumped. I think he used Cameron's chip (or repaired and used the water cooler terminator's chip) and left Zeira Corp to go find his AI brother in present day. This post isn't really about that theory, though. This time, I'm just analyzing the situation.

"You can't bring anything through when you come—not weapons, not clothing, nothing."

If John Henry did jump, where is his clothing? It should've been in a pile on the floor, but it wasn't. Clothing doesn't go through, so it either gets disintegrated by the time bubble or left behind by the time bubble. Since Cameron's clothed body was sitting there in the chair (and the chair and table were there), we can rule out disintegration. She was clearly within the sphere of the time bubble when Weaver and John left, so she would have been within the sphere when John Henry left too. Yet Cameron's body was clothed and intact and John Henry's clothes were not there.

Was that a hint that he didn't actually jump ahead or was it just a gaff?



Comments

( 48 comments — Add a comment )
gega_cai
Apr. 29th, 2010 08:47 pm (UTC)
Okay, I'm glad you bring this up because I think it's a serious gaff or ~issue with the series vs what is explained and shown in T1 and T2.

If I remember correctly, the pilot shows Cam, John, and Sarah go through time with clothes, but somehow, they arrive in the future naked. As if time travel ripped/burned their clothes. I don't get this or why they did it this way.

However, B2R time travel was identical to the pilot. John and Weaver went through with clothes and appear in the future without clothes like in the pilot.

The same could be said if John Henry did too, his clothes would not be lying around after his jump.

Edited at 2010-04-29 08:47 pm (UTC)
roxybisquaint
Apr. 29th, 2010 09:06 pm (UTC)
It's all consistent with T1/T2 time travel. Aside from having to believe Cromartie's head was still covered in living tissue (still "alive") when it left the vault, the show has only shown living things going through (and everyone arrives naked).

John and Weaver arrived naked in the future too, so we know there's nothing unique about Weaver's time machine in that regard. John Henry's clothes should be there in that room if he jumped!

Edited at 2010-04-29 09:07 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - gega_cai - Apr. 29th, 2010 09:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - roxybisquaint - Apr. 29th, 2010 10:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gega_cai - Apr. 29th, 2010 10:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - roxybisquaint - Apr. 30th, 2010 04:52 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - cj2017 - Apr. 30th, 2010 09:25 am (UTC) - Expand
Bank Vault TDE - tackdriver56 - Apr. 30th, 2010 01:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Bank Vault TDE - fig_aruna - Apr. 30th, 2010 11:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Bank Vault TDE - roxybisquaint - May. 1st, 2010 12:45 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Bank Vault TDE - the_narration - May. 1st, 2010 04:00 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Bank Vault TDE - roxybisquaint - May. 1st, 2010 06:29 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Bank Vault TDE - the_narration - May. 1st, 2010 04:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - roxybisquaint - May. 1st, 2010 12:41 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - cj2017 - May. 1st, 2010 07:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
Head + Endo + WiFi - tackdriver56 - May. 3rd, 2010 02:41 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Head + Endo + WiFi - fig_aruna - May. 3rd, 2010 03:47 am (UTC) - Expand
intrepid01
Apr. 29th, 2010 11:01 pm (UTC)
Schmacky brought this up month's ago, a podcast worthy topic I thought.

Either what isn't living tissue is left behind, or is destroyed by the process.
If left behind, JH clothes should be on the floor, If destroyed, then there should be a crater where the table, chair and Cameron was.
I think it was a Gaff, but even gaffs can become part of the mythology; and it was never established why JH would even want to go to the future because, A, with access to Cameron chip he'd know what it's like and, B, he would be at a severe disadvantage in such a hostile environment.

I think JH “did” go to the future, but the evidence and the reasoning says he didn't!
roxybisquaint
Apr. 30th, 2010 04:49 am (UTC)
I miss schmacky. We had some awesome late night TSCC chats.

Hmm... a podcast. I've been wanting to do one. Maybe this would be a good topic. Actually, I think I'd like to do a podcast about the BTR time jump in general.

I think it was a Gaff, but even gaffs can become part of the mythology

I do like the idea of it being evidence that JH didn't jump, but yeah, it probably was just a gaff. And you're probably also right that he did jump even though it doesn't make sense for him to have done so. Damn it! We need more!
gega_cai
Apr. 29th, 2010 11:15 pm (UTC)
Okay, I'm spamming you now but maybe John Henry kicked his clothes in the TDE to time travel to the future and walked out nekkid. :P
roxybisquaint
Apr. 30th, 2010 04:53 am (UTC)
LOL. No. But I did enjoy the spam ;)
the_narration
Apr. 30th, 2010 12:42 am (UTC)
The implication I always got was that non-living material was destroyed, not that it was left behind. Unfortunately, I don't think that we've ever really gotten to see what was left behind after a time-jump before.

But yeah, by that logic, shouldn't Cameron and the Turk machine have been destroyed when John and Weaver jumped forward? Unless Cameron's organic components still counted, in which case she would have gone with them. For that matter, I can't recall what we can see of the basement room after they jumped, but it seemed rather wreaked.

(If they'd just put the time machine far enough away from John Henry's table to not engulf all this other stuff, then they could have avoided this problem.)

I'm all for the "John Henry didn't go to the future" theory, if only because him going to the future is the worst move he could make: as I've said before, it makes no sense for John Henry to face Kaliba/Skynet in the future where its processing power will have increased by several orders of magnitude and it controls armies of Terminators and HKs that can act openly, instead of in the present where they're more even matched in processor speed and it has only a small force of Terminators and human mercenaries that must act covertly.
roxybisquaint
May. 1st, 2010 01:53 am (UTC)
The implication I always got was that non-living material was destroyed, not that it was left behind. Unfortunately, I don't think that we've ever really gotten to see what was left behind after a time-jump before.

But yeah, by that logic, shouldn't Cameron and the Turk machine have been destroyed when John and Weaver jumped forward? Unless Cameron's organic components still counted, in which case she would have gone with them. For that matter, I can't recall what we can see of the basement room after they jumped, but it seemed rather wreaked.


Yeah we never do get to see the aftermath of a time bubble leaving. But the fact that the Zeira Copr basement is still there when they land in the future means it wasn't destroyed by the time bubble's departure (or by the drone or by j-day). It looks pretty dark and dreary, but it's still there. Most of the damage seems to be from — busting through walls for passage during the war.



(If they'd just put the time machine far enough away from John Henry's table to not engulf all this other stuff, then they could have avoided this problem.)

I think Cameron had to be within the sphere so John would think her body was coming through with them (and be a little freaked out when Weaver tells him after they get there that "it doesn't go through"). All they really had to do was stick John Henry's clothes in a pile on the floor and then we can use ^ tackdriver's theory that the bank vault blew up because of the reaction of plasma gun meeting TDE.



I'm all for the "John Henry didn't go to the future" theory, if only because him going to the future is the worst move he could make: as I've said before, it makes no sense for John Henry to face Kaliba/Skynet in the future where its processing power will have increased by several orders of magnitude and it controls armies of Terminators and HKs that can act openly, instead of in the present where they're more even matched in processor speed and it has only a small force of Terminators and human mercenaries that must act covertly.

I've completely adopted your theory on this, by the way. Back when I first starting thinking about John Henry not jumping, I didn't even had a good reason for it. But you had it worked out nicely and I've been convinced ever since that he remained in the present and went to find Kaliba.
(no subject) - the_narration - May. 1st, 2010 03:51 am (UTC) - Expand
argh - roxybisquaint - May. 1st, 2010 07:31 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: argh - the_narration - May. 1st, 2010 04:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
roxybisquaint
May. 1st, 2010 12:47 am (UTC)
It would just get covered in lint.
phantomwriter05
Apr. 30th, 2010 02:18 am (UTC)
Sarah, Elison, and John Henry/Cameron being led down the hall by watercooler kaliba guys. Weaver sees a shadow and opens fire at John who was about to round a corner.

Sarah: (Knowing who it is) John!! John it's a TRAP!

Kaliba guys try to pull Sarah away but she holds onto the door frame.

Sarah: gurr ... John it's a trap!!

LOL sorry first thing that comes to mind with your post.

will think of something better later.

PS. JH's brother: Sarah has taught you well Young Connor, but your not a Hero yet.

*Stops himself*
roxybisquaint
May. 1st, 2010 02:04 am (UTC)
LOL. I wonder if that would make John check that attitude of his?
tackdriver56
Apr. 30th, 2010 01:08 pm (UTC)
Time Travel Conundra
If things on the sending end got burned away, there should have been a divot in the floor, too. I like your reasoning: no clothing, no time travel.

Weaver should have known whether the equipment was activated, from the electric meter, if not a usage log, though I concede that a usage log would compromise the TDE as an escape route.

Assuming Weaver knew that John Henry didn't jump, we can assume that Weaver jumped Connor past JDay by intentional deception. But why?
We also saw that John Henry did not prevent JDay. Is he destroyed or is he part of the problem?


fig_aruna
Apr. 30th, 2010 02:36 pm (UTC)
Re: Time Travel Conundra
If things on the sending end got burned away, there should have been a divot in the floor, too.

That's the part that gets me every single time I watch BtR, too. I personally think it was a gaffe, but as far as gaffes go, I've gotta say that it was a really huge one! The time-traveling Cromartie head from the Pilot was pretty wild to me too, so maybe they're just rounding out their record. XD


Assuming Weaver knew that John Henry didn't jump, we can assume that Weaver jumped Connor past JDay by intentional deception. But why?

It could be an incident of the Predestination paradox (teen!John in the future is somehow integral in the creation of independent!Weaver). Maybe Weaver wanted to sabotage Team Connor's efforts of preventing JDay (I really dislike this idea ;_;). Maybe it's part of some deal Weaver had made with Cameron in the future. (Jameron-minded folks could probably get behind that one, especially if John turns out to be dead in the future...but I don't like that one since I'm not particularly Jameron-minded. ;))

Etc. etc. etc...

I actually think this very question is the #1 reason why I keep hesitating on the JH didn't actually jump theory is the fact that the question has so many friggin' possibilities, I kinda want to protect my brain from the destructive pondering!


We also saw that John Henry did not prevent JDay. Is he destroyed or is he part of the problem?

Hmm. I personally don't believe Weaver/JH ever planned on preventing JDay, but who knows?
Re: Time Travel Conundra - tackdriver56 - Apr. 30th, 2010 03:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Time Travel Conundra - fig_aruna - Apr. 30th, 2010 05:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Time Travel Conundra - roxybisquaint - May. 1st, 2010 02:27 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Time Travel Conundra - roxybisquaint - May. 1st, 2010 02:46 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Time Travel Conundra - fig_aruna - May. 1st, 2010 03:43 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Time Travel Conundra - roxybisquaint - May. 1st, 2010 07:52 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Time Travel Conundra - roxybisquaint - May. 1st, 2010 08:26 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Time Travel Conundra - roxybisquaint - May. 1st, 2010 08:28 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Time Travel Conundra - fig_aruna - May. 3rd, 2010 03:49 am (UTC) - Expand
roxybisquaint
May. 1st, 2010 02:25 am (UTC)
Re: Time Travel Conundra
Weaver should have known whether the equipment was activated, from the electric meter, if not a usage log, though I concede that a usage log would compromise the TDE as an escape route.

Assuming Weaver knew that John Henry didn't jump, we can assume that Weaver jumped Connor past JDay by intentional deception. But why?


If John Henry didn't jump, I don't think Weaver knows. If she did, it would have to mean if was a ruse to get John to jump ahead but she didn't urge John or even ask him come along. He could've stepped out of the bubble any time. And even once they got there, she ditched him pretty quickly.

I think John Henry tricked Weaver into believing he'd jumped. He could've sent an empty bubble so she'd see that the TDE had been used or maybe he just messed with the computer so it looked like it had been used.



We also saw that John Henry did not prevent JDay. Is he destroyed or is he part of the problem?

He probably is part of the problem. Even if he is rather likable, John Henry can't be the solution or the savior of humanity. I just think that goes to far against the original story. I think he's probably an inadvertent part of the problem. He'd be changed by being untethered and loaded on to a chip, so he could become glitchy or angry or whatever and I think either convinced by his brother to join forces against humanity or maybe tricked into it. Something like that.
Re: Time Travel Conundra - j0hnhenry - May. 1st, 2010 07:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Time Travel Conundra - trystanknight - May. 2nd, 2010 01:02 am (UTC) - Expand
( 48 comments — Add a comment )

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